consorting with a known married man
You know how in the show “Junior Debate”, if a contestant was asked a question that s/he could not answer, s/he was allowed to lob the question to her team mates with the phrase “to the team”… and that became a euphemism for a question that you couldn’t quite answer?
Well, I had a “to the team’ moment when I was talking to my girl friend the other day. You know when you have friends carried over from your under-grad or grad days. Is it OK to hang out with the male married/ significantly related to someone else - doubly especially if the woman is not? My take on it was an emphatic NO with chilli on top. Like sneeze that idea away and walk away from the camaradarie and pints ‘cause that’s just shady. Then perhaps I’m just selfish. But I am willing to give up potentially excellent friends who might have one day donated a kidney than be the chick who is left holding the fort as the men go off to placate angry/tired/ sleepy girlfiends or wives by getting them some chicken from the kitchen and feeding them a wing or two, while I, the single chick is left smoking and pretending to really like that song as I wait for my drinking companions to show up with the ‘real women’ in tow.
Noooo… I need that “Baby, we really need to go home” star billing on the marquee role with the people I go out with. But my girl also got me thinking when she asked me how many people in this universe that revolves around Mutumia are allowed to put in some input on how we interact with friends and ‘people just like me’. So, “To the team”, I ask…
Is it selfish/ weak willed to stop hanging out with a person because ‘it looks wrong’?
Isn’t it risking the regard of people who know and like me just to pander to anonymous faceless haters who really don’t give the tiniest damn about me? I don’t know. I do know this though. I stopped believing in a world where “if you know your heart is pure, go ye forth with an intrepid step”. Bovine manure!!! As a grown woman, I know know that it’s not just the idea that counts. Motive is but one factor that’s considered. Perception and good judgement also matter. And sometimes you’ll lose out on some potentially good friends just to fit into this ’society’, just for the sake of ‘fitting in’ . Y’know? So while I may like your company blah blah blah… for my own selfish self-regard, I have to be wary about how I deal with you even though you come to me with nothing but the purest motives.
Is it selfish of me to insist that all relationships be defined on my terms or dismiss them out of hand? Sure. But then again, isn’t that what ALL relationships (with the exception of family- which also might account for why most homicides are comitted by a family member) are all about?
I mean, don’t we all have these limits on what a friendship should be and we look for people who subscribe to this philosophy and lose those with different views? I don’t really know. For all I know, there could be a whole lot of disgruntled ex-friends out there bitching about how bad a correspondent I became, don’t return calls etc. all unbeknownst to me. Doubt it. But it could be.
Anyway, I don’t know the answer to the question above. I do know that one should never put oneself in the situation where you’ll be explained away even when you’re doing nothing wrong. And that’s what catching pints with men with wives will do.
And ain’t that a shame….
Numero Uno Yaay!
For me i apply the policy of sincei know in my heart that we are just hanging out with no evil intentions then its ok just dont make it a habit but occasionally. I think just coz one of my boys is married dont mean that i cut him off kabisa how now(KM ‘06) he is still my boy.Peopel will talk and you cant please everybody so do right by yourself,that is my 2cents.
But what if the guy is part of a very, very tight group that you used to hang out with? Would you still hang out with the guy even after he had bibi? Does the principle still apply then? What if you’re the only squeeze in the group? Would it matter to you then?
Comment by Gish — May 25, 2006 @ 5:48 am
2 cents…..nay, 2 dururus. Yes, okay, fine,…I am with Gish. Intentions count for everything. As long as you know, and he knows where you stand….it is harmless for me.
I have so many friends who have gone on and wedded, and yes, I do hang out with them, with or withour their wives.
And my mentor too…sigh! I have a beer or two with him to catch up, and he has never misdirected a dart at me, haki!! tehe.
I say, paranoia haunts the guilty…as long as you are clear, then its all good…..because there are the men who really have all the wrong intentions….
If I threw away friends just because they got married, I will prolly have errrr, just you kamum. Tihihi….
The best bit for me, is how much I learn from these fisis, on life, marriage, children…etc.
My take. Just mine.
That’s a thumuni plus change kamami… I’m so LOLing at the fact that the tois have been fed already (your response to last post)…. OK my question is … if the wives are consistently not there— like these are your drinking pals… is this sawa? I’m not saying don’t catch A pint with a guy with a wife… kusema kweli, that’s a bit Sharia-lawish no? I’m aksing “is it OK to be catching pints with jamaaz” i.e. those jamaaz are your drinking crew ingalau they are totally trustworthy?
Comment by KM — May 25, 2006 @ 6:09 am
If you have a liking of the phrase ‘it is not what it looks like’ then you may continue with your activities as per pre-nuptial period.
Pure hearts and good intentions lead most people to hell and knowing a few enthusiastic mamas you may find yourself in a fix or with alcohol flowing from your hitherto impeccable hair-do, not to mention evening wear.
Personally I have a problem with even the male friends who keep my man away from me, you know those ones who will come find you all settled for your evening program together and suggest the men go pick something from the duka accross the road next you see the man in the morning at 5 am!!
It is not even the content of the time they spent together, it is something else akin to infringing on personal space… the way a fellow passenger in a bus drapes their hand over your seat driving you nuts… makes sense? No idea.
Alternatively you may include her in your plans…
I think you put your finger on what was bugging me—- that slight disassociation that I see happening when you see a ‘respectable mama’ or even maybe the wife (or her sister!) come closer. Like everyone is really working hard to show the way there’s Christian distance between them; the chick pays for that round to show she’s not nyonyaring the pints from the married men…. I don;t know…. That’s intesresting about the male friends…. I know this guy who I met as he used to be a very good friend of an ex. And when I knew him, he seemed to be going for “reggae concerts, nyam chom plots” etc. all the gaddamn time. After we broke up, these 2-man plot malizikad and when i asked him what’s up with not seeing Beenie man no more, his response was”Nah… those were plots to get my boy out of the house”…
*smh*
Comment by prousette — May 25, 2006 @ 10:08 am
first man commenting, I guess. For my female friends that are married, my policy is, establish a relationship with their husbands and talk/hang out with them as an entity, and not the woman by herself.
On Prousette’s point about taking the husband away, that definitely is something I am careful about as well. Unless it is at a time when the two can be apart, I will refrain from making plans that call for them to be so. However, I never hang out with just the wife along.
Good example (not personal). My brother was the best man at hist best friend’s wedding. And they were always hanging out together prior to this. However, once the guy exchanged vows with his wife, my bro says their relationship changed subtley. They are still best friends, but now there’s the added realisation that someone else holds a greater importance to my bro’s friend’s life, and so there is the obligatory distance, however slight.
Paraphrasing Prou, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Play it safe.
Hmmm… good point on the ’solo vs. group hang” …. I wonder if it’s viewed the same way— a married woman hanging out solo with her male buddies…. as it is for a married man hanging out with his female buddy. A chick married pal of mine used to do this lakini her mum in law came down on this QUICKEST with the full support of the chick’s mum. She was really disgusted — as she knew these jamaaz before she was married and didn’t hook up so there was really no reason for them to hook up post-nuptials no? Lakini… her Mum in law’s point was “My son should not be the one who’s being told “yah… I was with your wife last night at the [very nice and respectable bistro] yesterday evening”… It’s bad PR….
Thanks for your comment.
Comment by egm — May 25, 2006 @ 11:18 am
As aforementioned by Gish, its all about the intentions but I can guarantee you that if youre a chick or dude hanging out with a mama or ndugu whos married or has a significant other…the partner might not be tad skimmish on the whole thing and might lead to either strained friendships or bibi/bwana drama.
Personally to keep things simple…if U have to hang out with someone whos married…wach athe bibi or bwana be present that way they dont look at you as threat.
Otherwise it might lead ot a night or two of you sleeping with one eye open coz U know theres someone out there who would kill U in a nano second !
Or re-arrange that weave! Washana nayo! Annnndd for me part 2 to this is the fear that I will be the deafult chick that they call to ‘catch pints’ with lakini that’s it…. What about their wives calling me for baby-shower etc? Noneofthat… Plus also, the fact that they would be CAUSING like a mofo if their wives were catching pints with another jamaa just settles the matter for me…. Anyway… I don;t jua…
Comment by Devious One — May 25, 2006 @ 1:54 pm
Kisirani mingi ………..
Na tena basi? ’sup bro?
Comment by kyalo — May 26, 2006 @ 12:31 am
you raise a very valid point….”why are their mamas never there?”….
ati kwanza I can be mad ati “the place is not gisty euff for my mama”… kufa kubaf!
Comment by KM — May 26, 2006 @ 8:53 am
I slept on it, then i thought of some mbois i used to catch with, clique of like 5 jamaas and was the only one now they are all married except one. Honestly things have changed got to know their women, we dont catc as muchas we used to i actually avoid them dont jua why. Sorta understand what your are going through… i also understand that sometimes good intentions are not good enough, i would say go with your gut…
p’raps that’s the key—- just to go with instincts and if they’re wikaring… avoid mami, avoid
Comment by Gish — May 26, 2006 @ 8:55 am
This us a complex issue and I dont have much to say, other then not to put yourself in a situation where things can go awry.But on the other hand when people’s lives change the relationships that you have with them change.If my boy gets married then mambo of catching pints and going to clubs ovyo is no longer the way things will be.
Just my 2 cents!
hear, hear
Comment by acolyte — May 30, 2006 @ 1:27 am
This, like most things in life is unnecessarily complicated. I say keep your friends be they married single male or female. Don’t worry too much if you have to let go of a dear friend… If the friendship is true you will find yourselves together soon enough. I don’t mean to sound patronizing but let me explain myself.
I have been married 15+ years. In the first years the scenario you mention played itself out on a regular basis. I had friends that were single and unmarried from both sexes and my wife complained when I socialized too frequently with them. She complained more loudly when I hung out with the unmarried female friend. Like wise I was suffered from fits of jealousy and insecurity.
There were three distinct groupings that were formed:
1. Our group which consisted of friends that we both knew well
2. My group which consisted of my friends
3. Her group which consisted of her friends
4. Acquaintances
Group 2 and 3 were large and group 1 the smallest. As time went by group one grew with additions from both 2 and 3 as well from outside the two groups. As more of us got married or attached our friendships became stronger or weaker. The spouse factor provided a very strong push in one of these directions. The members of groups 2 and 3 who we drifted apart from moved to group 4.
My wife continues to have her own group of friends some of whom I know quite well but do not consider my friends. I have my own that I will drink away with to some and my wife will socialize with her own friends too. Some of the friends we both used to bitch about are now very close family friends who we both know we can rely on 100%
Damn! I am commenting here like I belong ….Sorry maybe I should just do my own post.
Relationships are like ships in the high seas. Winds, currents and sails are constantly moving them closer and further apart.
*** oops sorry! First time commenting on your blog although I pass by quite often. I love it.
Blue
no— no oops.. please comment away and thanks for visiting… I absolutely love your blog. Kwanza your anatomy of a kao/ luo etc. were PRICELESS!!!! I hope you continue with them… soon
PS.. It was also nice meeting you in person
Yes— I’m in category 4 now lakini—- wachout!!! kidogo tuu I’ma climb up that list 
Comment by Blue — May 30, 2006 @ 1:08 pm